a Kawa wikipedia page would be cool...

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a Kawa wikipedia page would be cool...

David Pirotte
Hello,

I just edited this page, to add a kawa external link reference in two locations on
the page:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hy

Doing so, I realize Kawa does not have its own wikipedia page: I don't have time to
do it, neither do I think I'm the right person to do it correctly, but it might be
good to ...

Cheers,
David

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Re: a Kawa wikipedia page would be cool...

Per Bothner
On 10/28/2017 10:03 AM, David Pirotte wrote:

> I just edited this page, to add a kawa external link reference in two locations on
> the page:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hy
>
> Doing so, I realize Kawa does not have its own wikipedia page:

Actually, it does:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawa_(Scheme_implementation)

I notice that various people have been adding to / updating, for which I
am very grateful.  It could do with more love, though.
--
        --Per Bothner
[hidden email]   http://per.bothner.com/
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Re: a Kawa wikipedia page would be cool...

David Pirotte
Hi Per,

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawa_(Scheme_implementation)

Ah, I did enter 'kawa' in the search box of the hy wikipedia page before to post
here, and it does not list anything about Kawa_(Scheme_...). I just tried again
using the search box of the kawa page, just to confirm, and same 'no match'

        Maybe worth a word with the wikipedia folks...

I really don't like the 1st sentence, because it gives the impression it is for
language implementors only, where as, imo, kawa is a scheme implementation, first
and before anything else,  that allows programmers _not_ to have write java (the
clojure 'slogan, nobody should never have to write java code...)

The page should really be reviewed, to make it extremely attractive, and _the_
language that one would want to use if they have to do anything in java ... it
should also explains the advantages it has over clojure (start-up time and a so much
better integration with the java class system ...

        all this with real example, a real complete little app...

        a 2D clock, as I wrote for guile-clutter might be a good example, and how one
        could run it in java, and android ... maybe :)

                http://www.nongnu.org/grip/examples.html

Then it says

        To run Kawa on GNU/Linux:

                $ export CLASSPATH=$CLASSPATH:/path/to/kawa/kawa-1.10.jar

        1.10 ? ...

Voilà :) my 2c

        Not me though, I'm totally over loaded with my GNU projects and rarely use
        kawa anyway (I do when I have to use imagej, precisely because I
        don't want to write in java...

        One of the superior advantage of kawa to clojure is that we don't even need
        to interact with the java ecosystem, just kawa -C mycode.scm > mycode.Class
        then we can import and, you feel like you are in Guile, or Racket

All we need is emacs, and a repl, then geiser:

        Per, any progress on dynamic (re)compilation? not a big deal, just
        curious

It is just that I am irritated to see clojure every where and never kawa, which is
so much better ... so today I did my part and added this entry in the HY page :):)

Cheers,
David

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Re: a Kawa wikipedia page would be cool...

Per Bothner
On 10/28/2017 10:54 AM, David Pirotte wrote:

> Hi Per,
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawa_(Scheme_implementation)
>
> Ah, I did enter 'kawa' in the search box of the hy wikipedia page before to post
> here, and it does not list anything about Kawa_(Scheme_...). I just tried again
> using the search box of the kawa page, just to confirm, and same 'no match'
>
> Maybe worth a word with the wikipedia folks...
>
> I really don't like the 1st sentence, because it gives the impression it is for
> language implementors only, where as, imo, kawa is a scheme implementation, first
> and before anything else,  that allows programmers _not_ to have write java (the
> clojure 'slogan, nobody should never have to write java code...)

I vaguely remember there were two pages: 'Kawa (Scheme implementation)'
and 'Kawa (Language framework)' (or something like that).  Did someone try to merge
those two pages.

To me, as an implementor, Kawa isn't just a Scheme implementation.  There are
other languages implemented using the Kawa framework - some but not all included
with the Kawa source release.

However, for most people, Kawa is interesting an actual Scheme-variant programming language.
So perhaps the first paragraph should focus on that.  A second paragraph, maybe something like:

   The Kawa compiler tools can be used to implement other languages, some
   of which (such as an implementation for XQuery 1.0) are included in the Kawa distribution.

> The page should really be reviewed, to make it extremely attractive, and _the_
> language that one would want to use if they have to do anything in java ... it
> should also explains the advantages it has over clojure (start-up time and a so much
> better integration with the java class system ...
>
> all this with real example, a real complete little app...
>
> a 2D clock, as I wrote for guile-clutter might be a good example, and how one
> could run it in java, and android ... maybe :)
>
> http://www.nongnu.org/grip/examples.html
>
> Then it says
>
> To run Kawa on GNU/Linux:
>
> $ export CLASSPATH=$CLASSPATH:/path/to/kawa/kawa-1.10.jar
>
> 1.10 ? ...

I fixed that.

>
> Voilà :) my 2c
>
> Not me though, I'm totally over loaded with my GNU projects and rarely use
> kawa anyway (I do when I have to use imagej, precisely because I
> don't want to write in java...
>
> One of the superior advantage of kawa to clojure is that we don't even need
> to interact with the java ecosystem, just kawa -C mycode.scm > mycode.Class
> then we can import and, you feel like you are in Guile, or Racket
>
> All we need is emacs, and a repl, then geiser:
>
> Per, any progress on dynamic (re)compilation? not a big deal, just
> curious

None so far.  I've been focused on DomTerm (http://domterm.org/) - adding
tmux/screen-style session management.  After that I think the priority
is moving the Language Server along for IDE support.  (Both of these have
synergies with the dynamic recompilation goal.)

> It is just that I am irritated to see clojure every where and never kawa, which is
> so much better ... so today I did my part and added this entry in the HY page :):)

Imagine how I feel ...

--
        --Per Bothner
[hidden email]   http://per.bothner.com/
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Re: a Kawa wikipedia page would be cool...

Damien Mattei-2
i'm interesting since a few years about LisP and Scheme that targets the
JVM and there exists a few project about this but only Kawa for Scheme and
Clojure for LisP seems to be running well (i haven't test ABCL armed bear
common Lisp).
About Clojure his success seems based,in my opinion, on the fact that
despite Scheme there is still a big community with LisP  and Common Lisp.
If someone search a Scheme compatible with Java i think the sole good
implementation is Kawa. It seems that LisP as still a big community because
it was prior to Scheme, i leant LisP before Scheme, i did not understand
why Scheme? as LisP is so good instead, Clojure is not Lisp but has dragged
a lot of fan i think, Scheme is more young as language, the macro system
has evolves from define-macro to define-syntax instead Lisp use always the
same old macro system but even me i again attracted by Lisp because it was
the "origin" :-)

Damien

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Per Bothner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10/28/2017 10:54 AM, David Pirotte wrote:
>
>> Hi Per,
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawa_(Scheme_implementation)
>>>
>>
>> Ah, I did enter 'kawa' in the search box of the hy wikipedia page before
>> to post
>> here, and it does not list anything about Kawa_(Scheme_...). I just tried
>> again
>> using the search box of the kawa page, just to confirm, and same 'no
>> match'
>>
>>         Maybe worth a word with the wikipedia folks...
>>
>> I really don't like the 1st sentence, because it gives the impression it
>> is for
>> language implementors only, where as, imo, kawa is a scheme
>> implementation, first
>> and before anything else,  that allows programmers _not_ to have write
>> java (the
>> clojure 'slogan, nobody should never have to write java code...)
>>
>
> I vaguely remember there were two pages: 'Kawa (Scheme implementation)'
> and 'Kawa (Language framework)' (or something like that).  Did someone try
> to merge
> those two pages.
>
> To me, as an implementor, Kawa isn't just a Scheme implementation.  There
> are
> other languages implemented using the Kawa framework - some but not all
> included
> with the Kawa source release.
>
> However, for most people, Kawa is interesting an actual Scheme-variant
> programming language.
> So perhaps the first paragraph should focus on that.  A second paragraph,
> maybe something like:
>
>   The Kawa compiler tools can be used to implement other languages, some
>   of which (such as an implementation for XQuery 1.0) are included in the
> Kawa distribution.
>
> The page should really be reviewed, to make it extremely attractive, and
>> _the_
>> language that one would want to use if they have to do anything in java
>> ... it
>> should also explains the advantages it has over clojure (start-up time
>> and a so much
>> better integration with the java class system ...
>>
>>         all this with real example, a real complete little app...
>>
>>         a 2D clock, as I wrote for guile-clutter might be a good example,
>> and how one
>>         could run it in java, and android ... maybe :)
>>
>>                 http://www.nongnu.org/grip/examples.html
>>
>> Then it says
>>
>>         To run Kawa on GNU/Linux:
>>
>>                 $ export CLASSPATH=$CLASSPATH:/path/to/kawa/kawa-1.10.jar
>>
>>         1.10 ? ...
>>
>
> I fixed that.
>
>
>> Voilà :) my 2c
>>
>>         Not me though, I'm totally over loaded with my GNU projects and
>> rarely use
>>         kawa anyway (I do when I have to use imagej, precisely because I
>>         don't want to write in java...
>>
>>         One of the superior advantage of kawa to clojure is that we don't
>> even need
>>         to interact with the java ecosystem, just kawa -C mycode.scm >
>> mycode.Class
>>         then we can import and, you feel like you are in Guile, or Racket
>>
>> All we need is emacs, and a repl, then geiser:
>>
>>         Per, any progress on dynamic (re)compilation? not a big deal, just
>>         curious
>>
>
> None so far.  I've been focused on DomTerm (http://domterm.org/) - adding
> tmux/screen-style session management.  After that I think the priority
> is moving the Language Server along for IDE support.  (Both of these have
> synergies with the dynamic recompilation goal.)
>
> It is just that I am irritated to see clojure every where and never kawa,
>> which is
>> so much better ... so today I did my part and added this entry in the HY
>> page :):)
>>
>
> Imagine how I feel ...
>
>
> --
>         --Per Bothner
> [hidden email]   http://per.bothner.com/
>