Re: is eCos dying?

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Re: is eCos dying?

John Dallaway-2
Hi Abhishek

eCos is not dying, but I would have to agree that there has been less
activity on the mailing lists recently.

John Dallaway


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: is eCos dying?
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:35:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: abhishek srivastava <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: abhishek srivastava <[hidden email]>
To: Ecos Discuss <[hidden email]>, John Dallaway
<[hidden email]>


hi
I am interested to learn ecos for mbed LPC1768 or TI Tiva C
microcontroller but it seems very less activity on eCos.
Would it be worth to start learning on eCos or is it dying ?I have seen
enough activity in 2007 but now it is minimal this year.
Is it getting outdated? should i begin to work using eCos or should i
look for other alternative?\

Thank you

Abhishek




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Re: is eCos dying?

Stanislav Meduna
On 03.10.2015 10:15, John Dallaway wrote:

Hi Abhishek,

>> Would it be worth to start learning on eCos or is it dying ?I have seen
>> enough activity in 2007 but now it is minimal this year.
>> Is it getting outdated?

> eCos is not dying, but I would have to agree that there has been less
> activity on the mailing lists recently.

Well the last commit in http://hg-pub.ecoscentric.com/ecos/ is 5 months
old one-liner, followed by a 12 and 15 month old ones, so this is not only
on mailing lists. I'd say that while it is still a good OS with clean
and easy to use architecture, the open source version basically died
and there are parts hopelessly outdated (TCP/IP from ~2000 if
I remember correctly etc).

I cannot comment on eCosPro, but then you are in a price segment
where there are more alternatives to explore.

>> should i begin to work using eCos or should i look for other alternative?

It depends on what your short and long-term plans are. Definitely
also take a look at FreeRTOS.

Regards
--
                                             Stano


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Re: is eCos dying?

Grant Edwards-6
On 2015-10-04, Stanislav Meduna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 03.10.2015 10:15, John Dallaway wrote:
>
> Hi Abhishek,
>
>>> Would it be worth to start learning on eCos or is it dying ?I have seen
>>> enough activity in 2007 but now it is minimal this year.
>>> Is it getting outdated?
>
>> eCos is not dying, but I would have to agree that there has been less
>> activity on the mailing lists recently.
>
> Well the last commit in http://hg-pub.ecoscentric.com/ecos/ is 5 months
> old one-liner, followed by a 12 and 15 month old ones, so this is not only
> on mailing lists. I'd say that while it is still a good OS with clean
> and easy to use architecture, the open source version basically died
> and there are parts hopelessly outdated (TCP/IP from ~2000 if
> I remember correctly etc).
>
> I cannot comment on eCosPro, but then you are in a price segment
> where there are more alternatives to explore.
>
>>> should i begin to work using eCos or should i look for other alternative?
>
> It depends on what your short and long-term plans are. Definitely
> also take a look at FreeRTOS.

I also am commenting strictly on the open-source version, not on
eCosPro...

I've been using eCos since the Cygnus days (around 1999 or so).  I've
been pretty happy with it, but the open-source version is getting
pretty stale. I'm particularly worried about the ancient FreeBSD
network stack -- but it still seems to be working OK, knock on wood.

I'm also concerned about what's going to happen when my customers
starting actually using IPv6 in anger.

Getting the two BSD networks stacks integrated into eCos was an
impressive feat of engineering. But, a square peg in a round hole is
still a square peg in a round hole no matter how much you admire the
craftsmanship of the shims.

I've often wished I had a few spare weeks to experiment with LWIP.  I
have the impression that it's a better fit for eCos and would be
easier to keep current.

If I were starting from scratch these days, I'd probably look first at
something other than eCos. I've never needed the full-up POSIX or
uItron adaptation layers, so for my smaller projects I'd probably lean
towards something a little lighter-weight like uCos-II/III (not free)
or XMK (which also seems to be languishing a bit).  FreeRTOS would
also be at the top of my list of candidates -- even though I find the
web-site a bit off-putting.  I'd probably use Linux for bigger, more
complex projects that are "not quite as real-time" and could benefit
from the Unix memory protection and process models.

--
Grant


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Re: is eCos dying?

Richard Rauch
In reply to this post by John Dallaway-2
Hi,

my opinion is quite differently:
You do not see a lot of activities in the eCos community because of politics
and commercial interests.

My company was very active in eCos projects (specially porting projects and
development toolchain) within several years.
Beside several application projects based on eCos we have made a couple of
portings to different processor platforms for microcontroller vendors
(Atmel, Xilinx) and OEMs.

We tried to commit all this ports to the community! Specially one of the
OEMs (Softing AG, Munich) was very active by himself in this commitment
activity as well.
But from eCos maintainer side there is no interest to overtake such ports.
This is just a guess, but in my opinion the reason for this is, that the
maintainers of public eCos are as well strongly commercial oriented.
It seems, they will not put any port to official open source repository if
it could disturb commercial interests (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).

I will give just one example when we tried to make a port public:
http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001649
further activities, if you search for in detail:
http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=at91sam9G45
beside this there was email traffic as well with the maintainers, but
finally there was no success!

Additionally I need to say, that you will be thwarted, if you try to offer
commercial activities as well. If you are not absolutely carefully about
usage of eCos name and logo, you will get some letters from eCosCentric's
lawyer!

In consideration of our experiences I do not wonder, that the audience is
losing interest in eCos and is searching for alternatives.
We have already customers, who decided against eCos specially because the
fact, that there is dramatically decreasing activity in the community!

Richard

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------

> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:ecos-discuss-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Grant Edwards
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 4. Oktober 2015 17:00
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: [ECOS] Re: is eCos dying?
>
> On 2015-10-04, Stanislav Meduna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 03.10.2015 10:15, John Dallaway wrote:
> >
> > Hi Abhishek,
> >
> >>> Would it be worth to start learning on eCos or is it dying ?I have
> >>> seen enough activity in 2007 but now it is minimal this year.
> >>> Is it getting outdated?
> >
> >> eCos is not dying, but I would have to agree that there has been less
> >> activity on the mailing lists recently.
> >
> > Well the last commit in http://hg-pub.ecoscentric.com/ecos/ is 5
> > months old one-liner, followed by a 12 and 15 month old ones, so this
> > is not only on mailing lists. I'd say that while it is still a good OS
> > with clean and easy to use architecture, the open source version
> > basically died and there are parts hopelessly outdated (TCP/IP from
> > ~2000 if I remember correctly etc).
> >
> > I cannot comment on eCosPro, but then you are in a price segment where
> > there are more alternatives to explore.
> >
> >>> should i begin to work using eCos or should i look for other
alternative?
> >
> > It depends on what your short and long-term plans are. Definitely also
> > take a look at FreeRTOS.
>
> I also am commenting strictly on the open-source version, not on
eCosPro...
>
> I've been using eCos since the Cygnus days (around 1999 or so).  I've been
> pretty happy with it, but the open-source version is getting pretty stale.
I'm
> particularly worried about the ancient FreeBSD network stack -- but it
still
> seems to be working OK, knock on wood.
>
> I'm also concerned about what's going to happen when my customers
> starting actually using IPv6 in anger.
>
> Getting the two BSD networks stacks integrated into eCos was an impressive
> feat of engineering. But, a square peg in a round hole is still a square
peg in a
> round hole no matter how much you admire the craftsmanship of the shims.
>
> I've often wished I had a few spare weeks to experiment with LWIP.  I have
> the impression that it's a better fit for eCos and would be easier to keep
> current.
>
> If I were starting from scratch these days, I'd probably look first at
something
> other than eCos. I've never needed the full-up POSIX or uItron adaptation
> layers, so for my smaller projects I'd probably lean towards something a
little
> lighter-weight like uCos-II/III (not free) or XMK (which also seems to be
> languishing a bit).  FreeRTOS would also be at the top of my list of
candidates
> -- even though I find the web-site a bit off-putting.  I'd probably use
Linux for

> bigger, more complex projects that are "not quite as real-time" and could
> benefit from the Unix memory protection and process models.
>
> --
> Grant
>
>
> --
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss



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Re: is eCos dying?

Mikhail Matusov-2
Hi Richard,

Could you tell more about your Xilinx port?

Thanks,
/Mikhail



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Rauch
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 3:51 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [ECOS] Re: is eCos dying?

Hi,

my opinion is quite differently:
You do not see a lot of activities in the eCos community because of politics
and commercial interests.

My company was very active in eCos projects (specially porting projects and
development toolchain) within several years.
Beside several application projects based on eCos we have made a couple of
portings to different processor platforms for microcontroller vendors
(Atmel, Xilinx) and OEMs.

We tried to commit all this ports to the community! Specially one of the
OEMs (Softing AG, Munich) was very active by himself in this commitment
activity as well.
But from eCos maintainer side there is no interest to overtake such ports.
This is just a guess, but in my opinion the reason for this is, that the
maintainers of public eCos are as well strongly commercial oriented.
It seems, they will not put any port to official open source repository if
it could disturb commercial interests (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).

I will give just one example when we tried to make a port public:
http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001649
further activities, if you search for in detail:
http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=at91sam9G45
beside this there was email traffic as well with the maintainers, but
finally there was no success!

Additionally I need to say, that you will be thwarted, if you try to offer
commercial activities as well. If you are not absolutely carefully about
usage of eCos name and logo, you will get some letters from eCosCentric's
lawyer!

In consideration of our experiences I do not wonder, that the audience is
losing interest in eCos and is searching for alternatives.
We have already customers, who decided against eCos specially because the
fact, that there is dramatically decreasing activity in the community!

Richard

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------

> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:ecos-discuss-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Grant Edwards
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 4. Oktober 2015 17:00
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: [ECOS] Re: is eCos dying?
>
> On 2015-10-04, Stanislav Meduna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 03.10.2015 10:15, John Dallaway wrote:
> >
> > Hi Abhishek,
> >
> >>> Would it be worth to start learning on eCos or is it dying ?I have
> >>> seen enough activity in 2007 but now it is minimal this year.
> >>> Is it getting outdated?
> >
> >> eCos is not dying, but I would have to agree that there has been less
> >> activity on the mailing lists recently.
> >
> > Well the last commit in http://hg-pub.ecoscentric.com/ecos/ is 5
> > months old one-liner, followed by a 12 and 15 month old ones, so this
> > is not only on mailing lists. I'd say that while it is still a good OS
> > with clean and easy to use architecture, the open source version
> > basically died and there are parts hopelessly outdated (TCP/IP from
> > ~2000 if I remember correctly etc).
> >
> > I cannot comment on eCosPro, but then you are in a price segment where
> > there are more alternatives to explore.
> >
> >>> should i begin to work using eCos or should i look for other
alternative?
> >
> > It depends on what your short and long-term plans are. Definitely also
> > take a look at FreeRTOS.
>
> I also am commenting strictly on the open-source version, not on
eCosPro...
>
> I've been using eCos since the Cygnus days (around 1999 or so).  I've been
> pretty happy with it, but the open-source version is getting pretty stale.
I'm
> particularly worried about the ancient FreeBSD network stack -- but it
still
> seems to be working OK, knock on wood.
>
> I'm also concerned about what's going to happen when my customers
> starting actually using IPv6 in anger.
>
> Getting the two BSD networks stacks integrated into eCos was an impressive
> feat of engineering. But, a square peg in a round hole is still a square
peg in a
> round hole no matter how much you admire the craftsmanship of the shims.
>
> I've often wished I had a few spare weeks to experiment with LWIP.  I have
> the impression that it's a better fit for eCos and would be easier to keep
> current.
>
> If I were starting from scratch these days, I'd probably look first at
something
> other than eCos. I've never needed the full-up POSIX or uItron adaptation
> layers, so for my smaller projects I'd probably lean towards something a
little
> lighter-weight like uCos-II/III (not free) or XMK (which also seems to be
> languishing a bit).  FreeRTOS would also be at the top of my list of
candidates
> -- even though I find the web-site a bit off-putting.  I'd probably use
Linux for

> bigger, more complex projects that are "not quite as real-time" and could
> benefit from the Unix memory protection and process models.
>
> --
> Grant
>
>
> --
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss



--
Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4435/10768 - Release Date: 10/06/15


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AW: [ECOS] Re: is eCos dying?

Richard Rauch
Hi Mikhail,

in which port you are interested? For Xilinx we have made eCos 3.0 port to
Microblaze and to Zynq.



> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:ecos-discuss-
> [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Mikhail Matusov
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. Oktober 2015 14:59
> An: Richard Rauch; [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: [ECOS] Re: is eCos dying?
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Could you tell more about your Xilinx port?
>
> Thanks,
> /Mikhail
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Rauch
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 3:51 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [ECOS] Re: is eCos dying?
>
> Hi,
>
> my opinion is quite differently:
> You do not see a lot of activities in the eCos community because of
politics
> and commercial interests.
>
> My company was very active in eCos projects (specially porting projects
and
> development toolchain) within several years.
> Beside several application projects based on eCos we have made a couple of
> portings to different processor platforms for microcontroller vendors
(Atmel,
> Xilinx) and OEMs.
>
> We tried to commit all this ports to the community! Specially one of the
> OEMs (Softing AG, Munich) was very active by himself in this commitment
> activity as well.
> But from eCos maintainer side there is no interest to overtake such ports.
> This is just a guess, but in my opinion the reason for this is, that the
> maintainers of public eCos are as well strongly commercial oriented.
> It seems, they will not put any port to official open source repository if
it
> could disturb commercial interests (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).
>
> I will give just one example when we tried to make a port public:
> http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001649
> further activities, if you search for in detail:
> http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=at91sam9G45
> beside this there was email traffic as well with the maintainers, but
finally
> there was no success!
>
> Additionally I need to say, that you will be thwarted, if you try to offer
> commercial activities as well. If you are not absolutely carefully about
usage
> of eCos name and logo, you will get some letters from eCosCentric's
lawyer!
>
> In consideration of our experiences I do not wonder, that the audience is
> losing interest in eCos and is searching for alternatives.
> We have already customers, who decided against eCos specially because the
> fact, that there is dramatically decreasing activity in the community!
>
> Richard
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------------------------------
> > Von: [hidden email] [mailto:ecos-discuss-
> > [hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Grant Edwards
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 4. Oktober 2015 17:00
> > An: [hidden email]
> > Betreff: [ECOS] Re: is eCos dying?
> >
> > On 2015-10-04, Stanislav Meduna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 03.10.2015 10:15, John Dallaway wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Abhishek,
> > >
> > >>> Would it be worth to start learning on eCos or is it dying ?I have
> > >>> seen enough activity in 2007 but now it is minimal this year.
> > >>> Is it getting outdated?
> > >
> > >> eCos is not dying, but I would have to agree that there has been
> > >> less activity on the mailing lists recently.
> > >
> > > Well the last commit in http://hg-pub.ecoscentric.com/ecos/ is 5
> > > months old one-liner, followed by a 12 and 15 month old ones, so
> > > this is not only on mailing lists. I'd say that while it is still a
> > > good OS with clean and easy to use architecture, the open source
> > > version basically died and there are parts hopelessly outdated
> > > (TCP/IP from
> > > ~2000 if I remember correctly etc).
> > >
> > > I cannot comment on eCosPro, but then you are in a price segment
> > > where there are more alternatives to explore.
> > >
> > >>> should i begin to work using eCos or should i look for other
> alternative?
> > >
> > > It depends on what your short and long-term plans are. Definitely
> > > also take a look at FreeRTOS.
> >
> > I also am commenting strictly on the open-source version, not on
> eCosPro...
> >
> > I've been using eCos since the Cygnus days (around 1999 or so).  I've
> > been pretty happy with it, but the open-source version is getting pretty
> stale.
> I'm
> > particularly worried about the ancient FreeBSD network stack -- but it
> still
> > seems to be working OK, knock on wood.
> >
> > I'm also concerned about what's going to happen when my customers
> > starting actually using IPv6 in anger.
> >
> > Getting the two BSD networks stacks integrated into eCos was an
> > impressive feat of engineering. But, a square peg in a round hole is
> > still a square
> peg in a
> > round hole no matter how much you admire the craftsmanship of the
> shims.
> >
> > I've often wished I had a few spare weeks to experiment with LWIP.  I
> > have the impression that it's a better fit for eCos and would be
> > easier to keep current.
> >
> > If I were starting from scratch these days, I'd probably look first at
> something
> > other than eCos. I've never needed the full-up POSIX or uItron
> > adaptation layers, so for my smaller projects I'd probably lean
> > towards something a
> little
> > lighter-weight like uCos-II/III (not free) or XMK (which also seems to
> > be languishing a bit).  FreeRTOS would also be at the top of my list
> > of
> candidates
> > -- even though I find the web-site a bit off-putting.  I'd probably
> > use
> Linux for
> > bigger, more complex projects that are "not quite as real-time" and
> > could benefit from the Unix memory protection and process models.
> >
> > --
> > Grant
> >
> >
> > --
> > Before posting, please read the FAQ:
> > http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
> > and search the list archive:
> > http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss
>
>
>
> --
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4435/10768 - Release Date: 10/06/15
>
>
> --
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss



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Re: is eCos dying?

Jonathan Larmour-2
In reply to this post by Richard Rauch
On 06/10/15 08:51, Richard Rauch wrote:
> You do not see a lot of activities in the eCos community because of politics
> and commercial interests.
[snip]
> This is just a guess, but in my opinion the reason for this is, that the
> maintainers of public eCos are as well strongly commercial oriented.
> It seems, they will not put any port to official open source repository if
> it could disturb commercial interests (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).

If nothing else, look at the list at the bottom of
http://ecos.sourceware.org/intouch.html and you'll see that only two of the
maintainers (myself and Nick) are in eCosCentric - severely outnumbered! If a
maintainer has the time and ability to go through, review and potentially
rework any submission, then any of them can. If you think there has been some
secret agreement behind-the-scenes between all maintainers to deliberately
stop contributions being committed you are very mistaken.


> Additionally I need to say, that you will be thwarted, if you try to offer
> commercial activities as well. If you are not absolutely carefully about
> usage of eCos name and logo, you will get some letters from eCosCentric's
> lawyer!

I'm not speaking for eCosCentric here, and I definitely don't know all the
details (not my dept.!), but I do know that if any trademark holder knowingly
fails to enforce an abuse of a trademark (such as incorporating that trademark
into your own mark which you then assert as a trademark), then that trademark
is being diluted and as a result can become legally unenforceable (you can't
enforce against one abuse, if you deliberately turned a blind eye to another).
And obviously no-one would want to lose all protection of the eCos trademark
entirely. That's my take on it anyway.

Jifl


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Re: is eCos dying?

David Fernandez
(resent, as was sent from company email with likely privacy disclaimer
attached)

On 13/10/15 00:57, Jonathan Larmour wrote:

> On 06/10/15 08:51, Richard Rauch wrote:
>> You do not see a lot of activities in the eCos community because of politics
>> and commercial interests.
> [snip]
>> This is just a guess, but in my opinion the reason for this is, that the
>> maintainers of public eCos are as well strongly commercial oriented.
>> It seems, they will not put any port to official open source repository if
>> it could disturb commercial interests (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).
> If nothing else, look at the list at the bottom of
> http://ecos.sourceware.org/intouch.html and you'll see that only two of the
> maintainers (myself and Nick) are in eCosCentric - severely outnumbered! If a
> maintainer has the time and ability to go through, review and potentially
> rework any submission, then any of them can. If you think there has been some
> secret agreement behind-the-scenes between all maintainers to deliberately
> stop contributions being committed you are very mistaken.

I would say that nobody looks at the list these days, specially ecos-devel.

I had some things I managed to put in a state I could submit as valid
patches, but nobody answers the emails, so you end up forgetting about
it and keeping private patches.

Is there any way people can contribute currently, I mean actively
contribute, rather than just throw stuff into a black hole?

Otherwise, it might be better to just be clear and say that opensource
eCos is meant as an evaluation repository, and eCosCentric should be the
way to go for any real contributions and in business use of eCos.

Regards
David Fernandez


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Re: is eCos dying?

Grant Edwards-6
In reply to this post by Jonathan Larmour-2
On 2015-10-12, Jonathan Larmour <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 06/10/15 08:51, Richard Rauch wrote:
>> You do not see a lot of activities in the eCos community because of politics
>> and commercial interests.
> [snip]
>> This is just a guess, but in my opinion the reason for this is, that the
>> maintainers of public eCos are as well strongly commercial oriented.

Well... I do rather like to eat, and the bank that owns my house gets
a bit uppity if I stop sending mortgage payments. So yes I am
"strongly commercial oriented" in that I do dedicate a considerable
amount of my waking time to earning a living rather than maintaining
eCos.  I also have a number of non-eCos-related things I like to do
when I'm not actively working to earn a living.

>> It seems, they will not put any port to official open source
>> repository if it could disturb commercial interests
>> (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).

No.  Just no. I certainly am not refusing to commit anything out of
deference to the commercial interests of eCosCentric.  I'd be very
shocked if any of the other maintainers were.  [And I can't believe
that they (eCosCentric et alia) would ask/expect any of us to do so.]

> If nothing else, look at the list at the bottom of
> http://ecos.sourceware.org/intouch.html and you'll see that only two
> of the maintainers (myself and Nick) are in eCosCentric - severely
> outnumbered! If a maintainer has the time and ability to go through,
> review and potentially rework any submission, then any of them can.
> If you think there has been some secret agreement behind-the-scenes
> between all maintainers to deliberately stop contributions being
> committed you are very mistaken.

Speaking only for myself, the main reasons are 1) lack of spare time,
and 2) insufficient depth of knowlege in various areas of the kernel
to feel comfortable reviewing most of the submissions.

--
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Maybe I should have
                                  at               asked for my Neutron Bomb
                              gmail.com            in PAISLEY --


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Re: is eCos dying?

Alex Schuilenburg
In reply to this post by Richard Rauch
On 06/10/15 08:51, Richard Rauch wrote:
> Additionally I need to say, that you will be thwarted, if you try to offer
> commercial activities as well.
Not by eCosCentric and there are other commercial entities which offer
various activities w.r.t. eCos.

>   If you are not absolutely carefully about
> usage of eCos name and logo, you will get some letters from eCosCentric's
> lawyer!
Like most other sensible companies, we only involve lawyers as a last
resort when emails, letters and registered letters sent over several
weeks get ignored and there is no other option.  And of course when
lawyers get involved....

If it makes you feel any better, eCosCentric also have had contributions
turned down by maintainers (not for technical or quality reasons I
should add :-). However, we also have had a fair amount accepted, but
certainly not through coercion or control as you suggest.

-- Alex Schuilenburg
http://www.ecoscentric.com/

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Re: is eCos dying?

Frank Pagliughi
In reply to this post by David Fernandez
I would ask if the maintainers are still actively involved in the
project. Are contributions being made by them, or anyone else, and if
so, are they being discussed, reviewed, and committed? Is the
documentation up to date? Would a person who finds the project on the
Internet be assured by the state of what is there to want to invest the
time and effort to try to learn and master the details of it? Would a
developer be willing to stake his reputation by bringing the project to
his group for use on their new device?

If the answer is "no" to most of these questions, then an open-source
project is dead.

At that point, if there is anyone else who still cares about it, then
it's probably time for a fork or for the maintainers to hand the keys over.

Frank

On 10/13/2015 08:30 AM, David Fernandez wrote:

> (resent, as was sent from company email with likely privacy disclaimer
> attached)
>
> On 13/10/15 00:57, Jonathan Larmour wrote:
>> On 06/10/15 08:51, Richard Rauch wrote:
>>> You do not see a lot of activities in the eCos community because of
>>> politics
>>> and commercial interests.
>> [snip]
>>> This is just a guess, but in my opinion the reason for this is, that
>>> the
>>> maintainers of public eCos are as well strongly commercial oriented.
>>> It seems, they will not put any port to official open source
>>> repository if
>>> it could disturb commercial interests (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).
>> If nothing else, look at the list at the bottom of
>> http://ecos.sourceware.org/intouch.html and you'll see that only two
>> of the
>> maintainers (myself and Nick) are in eCosCentric - severely
>> outnumbered! If a
>> maintainer has the time and ability to go through, review and
>> potentially
>> rework any submission, then any of them can. If you think there has
>> been some
>> secret agreement behind-the-scenes between all maintainers to
>> deliberately
>> stop contributions being committed you are very mistaken.
>
> I would say that nobody looks at the list these days, specially
> ecos-devel.
>
> I had some things I managed to put in a state I could submit as valid
> patches, but nobody answers the emails, so you end up forgetting about
> it and keeping private patches.
>
> Is there any way people can contribute currently, I mean actively
> contribute, rather than just throw stuff into a black hole?
>
> Otherwise, it might be better to just be clear and say that opensource
> eCos is meant as an evaluation repository, and eCosCentric should be
> the way to go for any real contributions and in business use of eCos.
>
> Regards
> David Fernandez
>
>


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Re: is eCos dying?

Sergei Gavrikov-4
In reply to this post by Richard Rauch
On Tue, 6 Oct 2015, Richard Rauch wrote:

> It seems, they will not put any port to official open source
> repository if it could disturb commercial interests
> (eCosCentric/eCosPro...).

I am not affiliated with eCosCentric/eCosPro somehow. Nohow.

> I will give just one example when we tried to make a port public:
> http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001649 further
> activities, if you search for in detail:
> http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=at91sam9G45
> beside this there was email traffic as well with the maintainers, but
> finally there was no success!

Just now I looked on one issue (half-hour only). I tried the latest BUG
from the 'at91sam9G45' set, this one

  http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1001796

The said:

>> One main objective of this patch is to ensure the existing ports do
>> not break because of these extensions.

Getting ahead, I must say that I never try to review any patches which
do massive changes in HAL, especially when a delta for *.S sources takes
a few screens and this is such a case, look, please

  http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/attachment.cgi?id=2125&action=diff

This surely does infect many (if not all) ARM targets. Why I never try?
At first I have no such competence and secondly I have no test farm for
the most infected hardware. Could you play an assembler code in a mind?
I cannot, sorry. I can try to check such a proof

>> One main objective of this patch is to ensure the existing ports do
>> not break because of these extensions.

So, I did a proper checkout and applied the patches. No build errors.
Great. I got hold eCos ARM7TDMI target, flashed "new" RedBoot image,
Redboot started. Great! Then I downloaded `tm_basic' on the target, 'go'
and the test hung. GDB session: the same (I could not even break the
test). I rolled back the changes, re-built RedBoot and eCos tests
(notice that checkout was a medium of 2012) and got all things worked.

Q: Should a maintainer take JTAG and continue to deepen in the "issue"
   in such cases when new things do break the existing things?

Do you really think such a delta (only arm/arch part)

 hg diff --stat packages/hal/arm/arch/current/
  packages/hal/arm/arch/current/include/hal_arch.h |   20 +-
  packages/hal/arm/arch/current/include/hal_intr.h |  174 +++------
  packages/hal/arm/arch/current/src/arm_stub.c     |    5 +-
  packages/hal/arm/arch/current/src/context.S      |   45 +-
  packages/hal/arm/arch/current/src/hal_misc.c     |    3 +-
  packages/hal/arm/arch/current/src/vectors.S      |  437 +++++++++-------------
  6 files changed, 291 insertions(+), 393 deletions(-)

can break nothing? I think this BUG could not found enthusiasts among
the maintainers as they even more skilled than me. Perhaps, they
understood: the patch will break important things even without a live
experiment.

I believe that Bernd Edinger (Hi Bernd!) did a herculean job and new
folks would get new horizons with new AT91 families. But what's about
old folk, old targets? When somebody ask, is eCos dying? I read, is old
folk (okay targets :-) dying? Sure, but that takes a time. Perhaps, we
have to make obsolete some targets. What criteria is? Age? Poll? I.e.
majority against maintainers?

Back to at91sam9 distribution. What I would advice? I would advise to
create EPK (eCos package) which will make obsolete "old" hardware and
offer "new" stuff. New folks be happy (no mess with patches). Why not?

What do I regret? I regret that in 2013 I have not found even a
half-hour for testing. But most likely I've seen this BUG and thought,
this work has no chance to be applied AS IS, it needs a few man-months
of work the experts and I am not big expert here.

Sergei

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