Dynamic Locale?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
7 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Dynamic Locale?

Jun OKAJIMA


I am researching about feasibility of multilingualized
Linux distribution. The current problem I have is,
how to make a multilingualized locale.

It is easy if you make a locale for all langueges,
but it makes too big locale file. Maybe more than 100MB?
I feel it does not sound practical.

Then, how we solve this problem?

My proposal is, making locale dynamically.
When apps call glibc, glibc forks "localedef" to make necessary
locales.

1. How you think about this idea?
2. Is there any other solution?

BTW, I have found one problem for this way so far.
localedef needs too much memory. Forking it is not practical
if you are running apps which use big mem. Any solution?
Before that, in the first place, why localedef eats such huge mem?
I can not understand why.


            --- Okajima, Jun. Tokyo, Japan.
                http://www.digitalinfra.co.jp/
                http://www.colinux.org/
                http://www.machboot.com/



 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dynamic Locale?

Troy-7
Jun,

What's your motivation here? I've been agonizing over
multi language issues myself, especially for recognizing
letters regardless of the language. E.g. in multilingual
documents with text in Japanese, Finnish, English and Greek
encoded in UTF-8.

Other aspects of locales tend to really require a specific
location/language. I am interested to hear what you have in mind.



Troy Korjuslommi                Tksoft Inc.
[hidden email]




>
>
>
> I am researching about feasibility of multilingualized
> Linux distribution. The current problem I have is,
> how to make a multilingualized locale.
>
> It is easy if you make a locale for all langueges,
> but it makes too big locale file. Maybe more than 100MB?
> I feel it does not sound practical.
>
> Then, how we solve this problem?
>
> My proposal is, making locale dynamically.
> When apps call glibc, glibc forks "localedef" to make necessary
> locales.
>
> 1. How you think about this idea?
> 2. Is there any other solution?
>
> BTW, I have found one problem for this way so far.
> localedef needs too much memory. Forking it is not practical
> if you are running apps which use big mem. Any solution?
> Before that, in the first place, why localedef eats such huge mem?
> I can not understand why.
>
>
>             --- Okajima, Jun. Tokyo, Japan.
>                 http://www.digitalinfra.co.jp/
>                 http://www.colinux.org/
>                 http://www.machboot.com/
>
>
>
>  
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dynamic Locale?

Jun OKAJIMA
>
>What's your motivation here? I've been agonizing over
>multi language issues myself, especially for recognizing
>letters regardless of the language. E.g. in multilingual
>documents with text in Japanese, Finnish, English and Greek
>encoded in UTF-8.
>
>Other aspects of locales tend to really require a specific
>location/language. I am interested to hear what you have in mind.
>
>

Probably same ---
I dont have to make a date printing format to be
"YY/MM/DD" (Japanese style). It is okay to accept
"MM/DD/YY" style, when I am using Japanese.

But, I want to edit a document contains multiple languages,
like mixture of Chinise, Japanese, Korean.
Imagine a book like "World Culture" or "World City Guide" or...

How you edit such book with Linux?
This is what I want to do.

In this case, the biggest problem is, how you input characters.
Displaying characters is not so difficult. You dont need locale,
but just font. But, inputting needs locale.

                       --- Okajima, Jun. Tokyo, Japan.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dynamic Locale?

Leonard den Ottolander
Hello Jun,

On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 21:41 +0900, Jun OKAJIMA wrote:
> But, I want to edit a document contains multiple languages,
> like mixture of Chinise, Japanese, Korean.

Well, using any locale (even one of your own making) with the UTF-8
charset should enable you to input all these characters.

> In this case, the biggest problem is, how you input characters.

All you need to do is to configure your desktop to support different
keyboard layouts and use the appropriate one for the language you want
to input.

Or am I misunderstanding your question?

Leonard.

--
mount -t life -o ro /dev/dna /genetic/research


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dynamic Locale?

John Haxby-2
Leonard den Ottolander wrote:
>> In this case, the biggest problem is, how you input characters.
>>    
>
> All you need to do is to configure your desktop to support different
> keyboard layouts and use the appropriate one for the language you want
> to input.
>
> Or am I misunderstanding your question?
>  
Assuming you're using X, the problem is not the keyboard layout, it's
the input method.   I think the IM subsystem on Fedora Core 5 is a lot
more flexible, but it used to be the case that your input method was
implicitly chosen by your locale.

jch
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dynamic Locale?

Troy-7
In reply to this post by Jun OKAJIMA
Jun,

Yes, of course. That's another good reason for a multi-language
locale.  You mean that you cannot select a Japanese input method
unless you have a Japanese locale.

Input methods define locales which they work with, so if you
select a locale which hasn't been defined by the input method,
you won't be able to activate it.

Therefore, after adding the multi-language input method, we
also need to have the input methods define this multi-language
locale as one they work with. For a multi-language locale,
there should really be a menu with multiple input methods,
instead of just one default IM. Afterall, it will be important
to be able to select one input method for Japanese, another one
for Russian, Greek etc.






Troy


>
> >
> >What's your motivation here? I've been agonizing over
> >multi language issues myself, especially for recognizing
> >letters regardless of the language. E.g. in multilingual
> >documents with text in Japanese, Finnish, English and Greek
> >encoded in UTF-8.
> >
> >Other aspects of locales tend to really require a specific
> >location/language. I am interested to hear what you have in mind.
> >
> >
>
> Probably same ---
> I dont have to make a date printing format to be
> "YY/MM/DD" (Japanese style). It is okay to accept
> "MM/DD/YY" style, when I am using Japanese.
>
> But, I want to edit a document contains multiple languages,
> like mixture of Chinise, Japanese, Korean.
> Imagine a book like "World Culture" or "World City Guide" or...
>
> How you edit such book with Linux?
> This is what I want to do.
>
> In this case, the biggest problem is, how you input characters.
> Displaying characters is not so difficult. You dont need locale,
> but just font. But, inputting needs locale.
>
>                        --- Okajima, Jun. Tokyo, Japan.
>
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Dynamic Locale?

Troy-7
In reply to this post by Jun OKAJIMA
Adding to my email.

Ubuntu (and therefore Debian) has multilingual input method
selection. I use it, but I have to admit that I haven't had
the time to delve into it enough to say how it works exactly.
I presume it's a gnome facility.

There is a multi-lingual IM selector tool, whose name I
unfortunately can't remember. You can select different IMs
e.g. in the gnome-terminal, with your right mouse button.
Should study what they've done there first.




Troy



>
> Jun,
>
> Yes, of course. That's another good reason for a multi-language
> locale.  You mean that you cannot select a Japanese input method
> unless you have a Japanese locale.
>
> Input methods define locales which they work with, so if you
> select a locale which hasn't been defined by the input method,
> you won't be able to activate it.
>
> Therefore, after adding the multi-language input method, we
> also need to have the input methods define this multi-language
> locale as one they work with. For a multi-language locale,
> there should really be a menu with multiple input methods,
> instead of just one default IM. Afterall, it will be important
> to be able to select one input method for Japanese, another one
> for Russian, Greek etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Troy
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >What's your motivation here? I've been agonizing over
> > >multi language issues myself, especially for recognizing
> > >letters regardless of the language. E.g. in multilingual
> > >documents with text in Japanese, Finnish, English and Greek
> > >encoded in UTF-8.
> > >
> > >Other aspects of locales tend to really require a specific
> > >location/language. I am interested to hear what you have in mind.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Probably same ---
> > I dont have to make a date printing format to be
> > "YY/MM/DD" (Japanese style). It is okay to accept
> > "MM/DD/YY" style, when I am using Japanese.
> >
> > But, I want to edit a document contains multiple languages,
> > like mixture of Chinise, Japanese, Korean.
> > Imagine a book like "World Culture" or "World City Guide" or...
> >
> > How you edit such book with Linux?
> > This is what I want to do.
> >
> > In this case, the biggest problem is, how you input characters.
> > Displaying characters is not so difficult. You dont need locale,
> > but just font. But, inputting needs locale.
> >
> >                        --- Okajima, Jun. Tokyo, Japan.
> >
> >
> >
>
>