Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

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Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Ihar Hrachyshka
Greetings,

===
Prelude: This issue was raised at GNU C Library Bugzilla about five
years ago, and still there is no final resolution. Discussion on
Bugzilla is stalled, and it seems like active glibc maintainers and
contributors don't monitor it hence I write this email to
libc-locales@. It would be great to see some progress on this issue
and finally get this locale variant in upstream.

This email was sent to Libc Steering Committee but I was forwarded to this ML.
===

The Belarusian language community affiliated with open-source feels
there's a time for creating the additional sub-variant of the be_BY
locale (suggested name -- be_BY@tarask, where @tarask stands for a
special IANA registered -tarask modifier).

Such sub-variant would denote the locale data and text (translations
etc.) represented in the fairly popular in Belarusian community
informal variant of the Belarusian language, which is standardized in
the book:

"Беларускі клясычны правапіс. Збор правілаў. Сучасная нармалізацыя",
Audra, Вільня-Менск, 2005. (title translation: "Belarusian classical
orthography. Set of rules. Modern normalization.")

The community feels that the current situation, with locale and text
data mixing both of the variants, serves bad both translators and
users. Separation of  variants, like proposed, would facilitate both
effectiveness of translating process, for translators, and consistent
feel-of-product, for consumers. Among others, there were requests from
one of the local embedded hardware vendors who wanted to supply his
firmware with the aforementioned language variant support but felt the
lack of such locale in upstream GNU C Library distribution.

The issue had already been raised c.June 2005 as a Bugzilla issue
(http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015), but then
the community didn't agree on some points (naming etc.), and the issue
was suspended. Now, sort of consensus has been reached and both
"sides" of the dispute are now endorsing this request to create the
additional sub-variant of the be_BY locale with suggested name of
be_BY@tarask.

The needed locale files are attached at the corresponding Bugzilla page.

Don't hesitate to ask me for any additional comments if needed. I also
put Belarusian localization mailing list in Cc in case you need to
hear from community.

Looking forward to hear from you soon,
Ihar Hrachyshka
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Re: Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Ihar Hrachyshka
Hi libc-locales ML,
any updates on Belarusian @tarask locale variant? I put some
additional comments on Bugzilla per Petr Baudis request. Please take a
look.
Thanks,
Ihar

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:55, Ihar Hrachyshka <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> ===
> Prelude: This issue was raised at GNU C Library Bugzilla about five
> years ago, and still there is no final resolution. Discussion on
> Bugzilla is stalled, and it seems like active glibc maintainers and
> contributors don't monitor it hence I write this email to
> libc-locales@. It would be great to see some progress on this issue
> and finally get this locale variant in upstream.
>
> This email was sent to Libc Steering Committee but I was forwarded to this ML.
> ===
>
> The Belarusian language community affiliated with open-source feels
> there's a time for creating the additional sub-variant of the be_BY
> locale (suggested name -- be_BY@tarask, where @tarask stands for a
> special IANA registered -tarask modifier).
>
> Such sub-variant would denote the locale data and text (translations
> etc.) represented in the fairly popular in Belarusian community
> informal variant of the Belarusian language, which is standardized in
> the book:
>
> "Беларускі клясычны правапіс. Збор правілаў. Сучасная нармалізацыя",
> Audra, Вільня-Менск, 2005. (title translation: "Belarusian classical
> orthography. Set of rules. Modern normalization.")
>
> The community feels that the current situation, with locale and text
> data mixing both of the variants, serves bad both translators and
> users. Separation of  variants, like proposed, would facilitate both
> effectiveness of translating process, for translators, and consistent
> feel-of-product, for consumers. Among others, there were requests from
> one of the local embedded hardware vendors who wanted to supply his
> firmware with the aforementioned language variant support but felt the
> lack of such locale in upstream GNU C Library distribution.
>
> The issue had already been raised c.June 2005 as a Bugzilla issue
> (http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015), but then
> the community didn't agree on some points (naming etc.), and the issue
> was suspended. Now, sort of consensus has been reached and both
> "sides" of the dispute are now endorsing this request to create the
> additional sub-variant of the be_BY locale with suggested name of
> be_BY@tarask.
>
> The needed locale files are attached at the corresponding Bugzilla page.
>
> Don't hesitate to ask me for any additional comments if needed. I also
> put Belarusian localization mailing list in Cc in case you need to
> hear from community.
>
> Looking forward to hear from you soon,
> Ihar Hrachyshka
>
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Re: Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Ihar Hrachyshka
Hi all,
any updates on this new be_BY@tarask locale? What info is missing for
you to finally take action on this bug? It's 5.5 years old already!
Best regards,
Ihar

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 03:11, Ihar Hrachyshka
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi libc-locales ML,
> any updates on Belarusian @tarask locale variant? I put some
> additional comments on Bugzilla per Petr Baudis request. Please take a
> look.
> Thanks,
> Ihar
>
> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:55, Ihar Hrachyshka <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> ===
>> Prelude: This issue was raised at GNU C Library Bugzilla about five
>> years ago, and still there is no final resolution. Discussion on
>> Bugzilla is stalled, and it seems like active glibc maintainers and
>> contributors don't monitor it hence I write this email to
>> libc-locales@. It would be great to see some progress on this issue
>> and finally get this locale variant in upstream.
>>
>> This email was sent to Libc Steering Committee but I was forwarded to this ML.
>> ===
>>
>> The Belarusian language community affiliated with open-source feels
>> there's a time for creating the additional sub-variant of the be_BY
>> locale (suggested name -- be_BY@tarask, where @tarask stands for a
>> special IANA registered -tarask modifier).
>>
>> Such sub-variant would denote the locale data and text (translations
>> etc.) represented in the fairly popular in Belarusian community
>> informal variant of the Belarusian language, which is standardized in
>> the book:
>>
>> "Беларускі клясычны правапіс. Збор правілаў. Сучасная нармалізацыя",
>> Audra, Вільня-Менск, 2005. (title translation: "Belarusian classical
>> orthography. Set of rules. Modern normalization.")
>>
>> The community feels that the current situation, with locale and text
>> data mixing both of the variants, serves bad both translators and
>> users. Separation of  variants, like proposed, would facilitate both
>> effectiveness of translating process, for translators, and consistent
>> feel-of-product, for consumers. Among others, there were requests from
>> one of the local embedded hardware vendors who wanted to supply his
>> firmware with the aforementioned language variant support but felt the
>> lack of such locale in upstream GNU C Library distribution.
>>
>> The issue had already been raised c.June 2005 as a Bugzilla issue
>> (http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015), but then
>> the community didn't agree on some points (naming etc.), and the issue
>> was suspended. Now, sort of consensus has been reached and both
>> "sides" of the dispute are now endorsing this request to create the
>> additional sub-variant of the be_BY locale with suggested name of
>> be_BY@tarask.
>>
>> The needed locale files are attached at the corresponding Bugzilla page.
>>
>> Don't hesitate to ask me for any additional comments if needed. I also
>> put Belarusian localization mailing list in Cc in case you need to
>> hear from community.
>>
>> Looking forward to hear from you soon,
>> Ihar Hrachyshka
>>
>
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Re: Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Ihar Hrachyshka
Hi,
could you please make a point on this bug? No reaction is not very
polite, really...
/Ihar

On 04/23/2011 02:23 PM, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:

> Hi all,
> any updates on this new be_BY@tarask locale? What info is missing for
> you to finally take action on this bug? It's 5.5 years old already!
> Best regards,
> Ihar
>
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 03:11, Ihar Hrachyshka
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi libc-locales ML,
>> any updates on Belarusian @tarask locale variant? I put some
>> additional comments on Bugzilla per Petr Baudis request. Please take a
>> look.
>> Thanks,
>> Ihar
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:55, Ihar Hrachyshka <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> ===
>>> Prelude: This issue was raised at GNU C Library Bugzilla about five
>>> years ago, and still there is no final resolution. Discussion on
>>> Bugzilla is stalled, and it seems like active glibc maintainers and
>>> contributors don't monitor it hence I write this email to
>>> libc-locales@. It would be great to see some progress on this issue
>>> and finally get this locale variant in upstream.
>>>
>>> This email was sent to Libc Steering Committee but I was forwarded to this ML.
>>> ===
>>>
>>> The Belarusian language community affiliated with open-source feels
>>> there's a time for creating the additional sub-variant of the be_BY
>>> locale (suggested name -- be_BY@tarask, where @tarask stands for a
>>> special IANA registered -tarask modifier).
>>>
>>> Such sub-variant would denote the locale data and text (translations
>>> etc.) represented in the fairly popular in Belarusian community
>>> informal variant of the Belarusian language, which is standardized in
>>> the book:
>>>
>>> "Беларускі клясычны правапіс. Збор правілаў. Сучасная нармалізацыя",
>>> Audra, Вільня-Менск, 2005. (title translation: "Belarusian classical
>>> orthography. Set of rules. Modern normalization.")
>>>
>>> The community feels that the current situation, with locale and text
>>> data mixing both of the variants, serves bad both translators and
>>> users. Separation of  variants, like proposed, would facilitate both
>>> effectiveness of translating process, for translators, and consistent
>>> feel-of-product, for consumers. Among others, there were requests from
>>> one of the local embedded hardware vendors who wanted to supply his
>>> firmware with the aforementioned language variant support but felt the
>>> lack of such locale in upstream GNU C Library distribution.
>>>
>>> The issue had already been raised c.June 2005 as a Bugzilla issue
>>> (http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015), but then
>>> the community didn't agree on some points (naming etc.), and the issue
>>> was suspended. Now, sort of consensus has been reached and both
>>> "sides" of the dispute are now endorsing this request to create the
>>> additional sub-variant of the be_BY locale with suggested name of
>>> be_BY@tarask.
>>>
>>> The needed locale files are attached at the corresponding Bugzilla page.
>>>
>>> Don't hesitate to ask me for any additional comments if needed. I also
>>> put Belarusian localization mailing list in Cc in case you need to
>>> hear from community.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to hear from you soon,
>>> Ihar Hrachyshka
>>>
>>

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Re: Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Petr Baudis
  Hi!

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 03:35:10PM +0300, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:
> could you please make a point on this bug? No reaction is not very
> polite, really...

  The only person who can take further action now is Ulrich Drepper.

                                Petr "Pasky" Baudis
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Re: Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Ihar Hrachyshka
In reply to this post by Ihar Hrachyshka
Hi Ulrich,

Now that Petr just told me you are in charge, could you please comment
on this?

/Ihar

On 06/19/2011 03:35 PM, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:

> Hi,
> could you please make a point on this bug? No reaction is not very
> polite, really...
> /Ihar
>
> On 04/23/2011 02:23 PM, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> any updates on this new be_BY@tarask locale? What info is missing for
>> you to finally take action on this bug? It's 5.5 years old already!
>> Best regards,
>> Ihar
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 03:11, Ihar Hrachyshka
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi libc-locales ML,
>>> any updates on Belarusian @tarask locale variant? I put some
>>> additional comments on Bugzilla per Petr Baudis request. Please take a
>>> look.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ihar
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:55, Ihar Hrachyshka <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>> Prelude: This issue was raised at GNU C Library Bugzilla about five
>>>> years ago, and still there is no final resolution. Discussion on
>>>> Bugzilla is stalled, and it seems like active glibc maintainers and
>>>> contributors don't monitor it hence I write this email to
>>>> libc-locales@. It would be great to see some progress on this issue
>>>> and finally get this locale variant in upstream.
>>>>
>>>> This email was sent to Libc Steering Committee but I was forwarded to this ML.
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> The Belarusian language community affiliated with open-source feels
>>>> there's a time for creating the additional sub-variant of the be_BY
>>>> locale (suggested name -- be_BY@tarask, where @tarask stands for a
>>>> special IANA registered -tarask modifier).
>>>>
>>>> Such sub-variant would denote the locale data and text (translations
>>>> etc.) represented in the fairly popular in Belarusian community
>>>> informal variant of the Belarusian language, which is standardized in
>>>> the book:
>>>>
>>>> "Беларускі клясычны правапіс. Збор правілаў. Сучасная нармалізацыя",
>>>> Audra, Вільня-Менск, 2005. (title translation: "Belarusian classical
>>>> orthography. Set of rules. Modern normalization.")
>>>>
>>>> The community feels that the current situation, with locale and text
>>>> data mixing both of the variants, serves bad both translators and
>>>> users. Separation of  variants, like proposed, would facilitate both
>>>> effectiveness of translating process, for translators, and consistent
>>>> feel-of-product, for consumers. Among others, there were requests from
>>>> one of the local embedded hardware vendors who wanted to supply his
>>>> firmware with the aforementioned language variant support but felt the
>>>> lack of such locale in upstream GNU C Library distribution.
>>>>
>>>> The issue had already been raised c.June 2005 as a Bugzilla issue
>>>> (http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015), but then
>>>> the community didn't agree on some points (naming etc.), and the issue
>>>> was suspended. Now, sort of consensus has been reached and both
>>>> "sides" of the dispute are now endorsing this request to create the
>>>> additional sub-variant of the be_BY locale with suggested name of
>>>> be_BY@tarask.
>>>>
>>>> The needed locale files are attached at the corresponding Bugzilla page.
>>>>
>>>> Don't hesitate to ask me for any additional comments if needed. I also
>>>> put Belarusian localization mailing list in Cc in case you need to
>>>> hear from community.
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to hear from you soon,
>>>> Ihar Hrachyshka
>>>>
>>>
>

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Re: Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Ihar Hrachyshka
In reply to this post by Ihar Hrachyshka
(Now with the right email address.)

Hi Ulrich,

Now that Petr just told me you are in charge, could you please comment
on this?

/Ihar

On 06/19/2011 03:35 PM, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:

> Hi,
> could you please make a point on this bug? No reaction is not very
> polite, really...
> /Ihar
>
> On 04/23/2011 02:23 PM, Ihar Hrachyshka wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> any updates on this new be_BY@tarask locale? What info is missing for
>> you to finally take action on this bug? It's 5.5 years old already!
>> Best regards,
>> Ihar
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 03:11, Ihar Hrachyshka
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi libc-locales ML,
>>> any updates on Belarusian @tarask locale variant? I put some
>>> additional comments on Bugzilla per Petr Baudis request. Please take a
>>> look.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ihar
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:55, Ihar Hrachyshka <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>> Prelude: This issue was raised at GNU C Library Bugzilla about five
>>>> years ago, and still there is no final resolution. Discussion on
>>>> Bugzilla is stalled, and it seems like active glibc maintainers and
>>>> contributors don't monitor it hence I write this email to
>>>> libc-locales@. It would be great to see some progress on this issue
>>>> and finally get this locale variant in upstream.
>>>>
>>>> This email was sent to Libc Steering Committee but I was forwarded to this ML.
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> The Belarusian language community affiliated with open-source feels
>>>> there's a time for creating the additional sub-variant of the be_BY
>>>> locale (suggested name -- be_BY@tarask, where @tarask stands for a
>>>> special IANA registered -tarask modifier).
>>>>
>>>> Such sub-variant would denote the locale data and text (translations
>>>> etc.) represented in the fairly popular in Belarusian community
>>>> informal variant of the Belarusian language, which is standardized in
>>>> the book:
>>>>
>>>> "Беларускі клясычны правапіс. Збор правілаў. Сучасная нармалізацыя",
>>>> Audra, Вільня-Менск, 2005. (title translation: "Belarusian classical
>>>> orthography. Set of rules. Modern normalization.")
>>>>
>>>> The community feels that the current situation, with locale and text
>>>> data mixing both of the variants, serves bad both translators and
>>>> users. Separation of  variants, like proposed, would facilitate both
>>>> effectiveness of translating process, for translators, and consistent
>>>> feel-of-product, for consumers. Among others, there were requests from
>>>> one of the local embedded hardware vendors who wanted to supply his
>>>> firmware with the aforementioned language variant support but felt the
>>>> lack of such locale in upstream GNU C Library distribution.
>>>>
>>>> The issue had already been raised c.June 2005 as a Bugzilla issue
>>>> (http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1015), but then
>>>> the community didn't agree on some points (naming etc.), and the issue
>>>> was suspended. Now, sort of consensus has been reached and both
>>>> "sides" of the dispute are now endorsing this request to create the
>>>> additional sub-variant of the be_BY locale with suggested name of
>>>> be_BY@tarask.
>>>>
>>>> The needed locale files are attached at the corresponding Bugzilla page.
>>>>
>>>> Don't hesitate to ask me for any additional comments if needed. I also
>>>> put Belarusian localization mailing list in Cc in case you need to
>>>> hear from community.
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to hear from you soon,
>>>> Ihar Hrachyshka
>>>>
>>>
>

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Re: Bug 1015: request for new locale for Belarusian language variant (be_BY@tarask)

Ulrich Drepper-2
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 08:49, Ihar Hrachyshka
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Now that Petr just told me you are in charge, could you please comment
> on this?

Package the file along with everything else needed in a separate
package and run localedef at install-time.  I will not allow anything
such proliferation of locales in libc itself and I will not do
anything which just puts me in the middle of a conflict.  In doubt the
status quo will always win.   localedef is standardized exactly for
the reason that it can be used outside of the original package (i.e.,
libc).  I've said this multiple times and people should just get on
with their lifes and do something constructive like creating
appropriate package for the locales they care about.